Comments on: Why HP should buy Brocade http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/#utm_source=feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed with nigel poulton Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:37:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Charles Hood http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-539 Charles Hood Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:22:20 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-539 stephen2615, On the contrary, the 32 port cards for DCX are not oversubscribed at all at 8Gb. The 48 port card for DCX isn't oversubscribed at 4Gb, and is just a wee bit oversubscribed at 8GB -- only 1.5 to 1. However, keep in mind that Brocade supports local switching, that means if an initiator on port 0 is talking to storage on port 1 then the blade is smart enough to do cut through switching, thus not consuming any backplane bandwidth for that slot. With a real world mix of 8Gb and 4Gb devices and a small amount of locality to your traffic patterns, it is trivial to build 1 to 1 non-oversubscribed SAN using 48 port cards. stephen2615,

On the contrary, the 32 port cards for DCX are not oversubscribed at all at 8Gb. The 48 port card for DCX isn’t oversubscribed at 4Gb, and is just a wee bit oversubscribed at 8GB — only 1.5 to 1. However, keep in mind that Brocade supports local switching, that means if an initiator on port 0 is talking to storage on port 1 then the blade is smart enough to do cut through switching, thus not consuming any backplane bandwidth for that slot. With a real world mix of 8Gb and 4Gb devices and a small amount of locality to your traffic patterns, it is trivial to build 1 to 1 non-oversubscribed SAN using 48 port cards.

]]> By: stephen2615 http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-538 stephen2615 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:35:39 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-538 Brocade over subscribe as well..  The 32 and 48 port card on the 48000 is a classic example of that.   I am sure it also happens on the DCX.    I most definitely understand the differences between the two vendors.  Market share is not a guarantee of success in the future.  I have a mixed shop (as part of a merger) with Cisco and Brocade (Directors and switches) and Brocade made it so much more difficult with their dropping interop mode.    I can easily get the performance and wonderful functionality out of the Cisco MDS equipment even though oversubscription can make for actual design and thought of where to put things.   :P Brocade over subscribe as well..  The 32 and 48 port card on the 48000 is a classic example of that.   I am sure it also happens on the DCX. 
 
I most definitely understand the differences between the two vendors.  Market share is not a guarantee of success in the future.  I have a mixed shop (as part of a merger) with Cisco and Brocade (Directors and switches) and Brocade made it so much more difficult with their dropping interop mode.    I can easily get the performance and wonderful functionality out of the Cisco MDS equipment even though oversubscription can make for actual design and thought of where to put things.
  :P

]]> By: Nigel Poulton http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-537 Nigel Poulton Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:47:03 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-537 Hi Garry,<br /><br />On major players committed to FCoE on storage side -<br /><br />EMC have announced availability of native FCoE connectivity on CLARiiON next year and I know NetApp have just bigged it up at ATL event today with Cisco, VMware & NetApp.<br /><br />You might be surprised one morning and wake up to all array vendors supporting it, once one supports it the others feel they "have" to rather than be seen to be left behind. And it can happen quickly....<br /><br />Hi RDB is not another storey - its a nightmare!!!!!<br /><br />;-) Hi Garry,

On major players committed to FCoE on storage side -

EMC have announced availability of native FCoE connectivity on CLARiiON next year and I know NetApp have just bigged it up at ATL event today with Cisco, VMware & NetApp.

You might be surprised one morning and wake up to all array vendors supporting it, once one supports it the others feel they "have" to rather than be seen to be left behind. And it can happen quickly….

Hi RDB is not another storey – its a nightmare!!!!!

;-)

]]> By: Garry http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-536 Garry Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:33:25 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-536 stephen2615, If you want to understand why HP prefers Brocade over Cisco, start with oversubscription ratio. Just for you reference it is not about switches, but directors and backbones. That is where Cisco cannot touch Brocade with its legacy IP design. 75 % of FC switches market share means more than just a simple personal  preference. I advise you do not jump to conclusions without understanding significant design differences in FC switching products from Cisco and Brocade. As far as FCoE - it  is still a buzz word untill it becomes industry accepted end to end connectivity standart. Top of Rack - I could care less.I am not aware of any major players who committed to FCoE on the storage side. HP with Brocade will create unbeatle due. Next step, HP should get grip on HDS, fix their stinking Hi RDB backend.. But it is a different story... stephen2615,
If you want to understand why HP prefers Brocade over Cisco, start with oversubscription ratio. Just for you reference it is not about switches, but directors and backbones. That is where Cisco cannot touch Brocade with its legacy IP design. 75 % of FC switches market share means more than just a simple personal  preference. I advise you do not jump to conclusions without understanding significant design differences in FC switching products from Cisco and Brocade.
As far as FCoE – it  is still a buzz word untill it becomes industry accepted end to end connectivity standart. Top of Rack – I could care less.I am not aware of any major players who committed to FCoE on the storage side.
HP with Brocade will create unbeatle due. Next step, HP should get grip on HDS, fix their stinking Hi RDB backend.. But it is a different story…

]]> By: stephen2615 http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-535 stephen2615 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 09:34:46 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-535 Good article Nigel.  For once I seem to think you realise that Brocade will not be a real competitor.    I just don't think that HP would be interested in Brocade.  I sometimes watch those articles on NatGeo Channle where a wave of debris after a volcano/earthquake pushes all that is in front of it out of the way.  HP do like Brocade SAN switches for some unknown reason and will convince anyone out there with little SAN switch knowledge that Brocade is the way to go.  Why is that?  I doubt its because Brocade do a better switch (and I know a couple of SAN people might want to argue on that) but I think its because they view Cisco as a real competitor in most serious ventures.  Cisco offer so many things that HP used to.  Their blade servers don't do much for me but hey, they are out there and some idiot CIO with a thing for Cisco might buy them. HP like Brocade as they are not a threat.  Its sort of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Brocade really need to show they are serious about FCoE and bring out mezz cards for the HP C class and/or whatever IBM offers these days.  Wasting their time only on CNA's is a waste of time.  Go with the flow. Good article Nigel.  For once I seem to think you realise that Brocade will not be a real competitor. 
 
I just don’t think that HP would be interested in Brocade.  I sometimes watch those articles on NatGeo Channle where a wave of debris after a volcano/earthquake pushes all that is in front of it out of the way.  HP do like Brocade SAN switches for some unknown reason and will convince anyone out there with little SAN switch knowledge that Brocade is the way to go.  Why is that?  I doubt its because Brocade do a better switch (and I know a couple of SAN people might want to argue on that) but I think its because they view Cisco as a real competitor in most serious ventures.  Cisco offer so many things that HP used to.  Their blade servers don’t do much for me but hey, they are out there and some idiot CIO with a thing for Cisco might buy them.
HP like Brocade as they are not a threat.  Its sort of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Brocade really need to show they are serious about FCoE and bring out mezz cards for the HP C class and/or whatever IBM offers these days.  Wasting their time only on CNA’s is a waste of time.  Go with the flow.

]]> By: Erwin van Londen http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-534 Erwin van Londen Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:19:56 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-534 Nigel,Have a look at http://www.ams-ix.net/technical/<br /><br />This is the Amsterdam Internet Exchange which is carrying a majority of the European Internet Traffic (yes a majority of ALL european backbone internet traffic) as well as a hell of a lot of traffic for the national scientific  datacentres.<br /><br />They run on Foundry kit. I think it is really impressive gear given the fact it moves stuff around at +- 1.5 TERRAbits per second. :-)<br /><br />Anyway, I think Brocade should remain independent. If they were bought by HP (or any other vendor if you like) they become distracted and just part of a business unit. The problem then is that a lot of other storage vendors become a bit skeptical w.r.t. intellectual property, development efforts for these different vendor etc. Chances are Cisco will pick the fruit from that giving them even more strength and market share. They will probably become the sole provider of storage networking gear in the not so distant future then. About the same as had happened with the CPU market, look at Intel. (The only other CPU available these days is the Power processor from IBM, all other RISC and MIPS processors are nearly dead or only used in highly special configurations)<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Erwin Nigel,Have a look at http://www.ams-ix.net/technical/

This is the Amsterdam Internet Exchange which is carrying a majority of the European Internet Traffic (yes a majority of ALL european backbone internet traffic) as well as a hell of a lot of traffic for the national scientific  datacentres.

They run on Foundry kit. I think it is really impressive gear given the fact it moves stuff around at +- 1.5 TERRAbits per second. :-)

Anyway, I think Brocade should remain independent. If they were bought by HP (or any other vendor if you like) they become distracted and just part of a business unit. The problem then is that a lot of other storage vendors become a bit skeptical w.r.t. intellectual property, development efforts for these different vendor etc. Chances are Cisco will pick the fruit from that giving them even more strength and market share. They will probably become the sole provider of storage networking gear in the not so distant future then. About the same as had happened with the CPU market, look at Intel. (The only other CPU available these days is the Power processor from IBM, all other RISC and MIPS processors are nearly dead or only used in highly special configurations)

Regards,

Erwin

]]> By: Jason http://blog.nigelpoulton.com/why-hp-should-buy-brocade/comment-page-1/#comment-533 Jason Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:27:58 +0000 http://blogs.rupturedmonkey.com/?p=533#comment-533 I'm faintly surprised that you've not seen Foundry switches in the wild.  I've seen them at 2 of the last 3 long term jobs I've had.  They're reasonably solid switches (Personally, I preferred Extreme switches of the 'second tier' of switch vendors, but that's just me).  Foundry is certainly a minority position, but they may have some worthwhile things up their sleeve... I've never played with ProCurve switches though. I’m faintly surprised that you’ve not seen Foundry switches in the wild.  I’ve seen them at 2 of the last 3 long term jobs I’ve had.  They’re reasonably solid switches (Personally, I preferred Extreme switches of the ’second tier’ of switch vendors, but that’s just me).  Foundry is certainly a minority position, but they may have some worthwhile things up their sleeve… I’ve never played with ProCurve switches though.

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